Thanks to my experience debating the left, I think Fearsome Pirate is correct in this assessment:
In an argument, we use logic. We test principles against each other. We marshal facts. We criticize and respond. Leftists do little or none of that because they are instinctual Marxists, and Marxism is an assault on everything we take for granted.
Let's pull apart one example that tends to befuddle the right: single motherhood.
There are three incontrovertible, incompatible truths:The rest of his post is very interesting.
- Leftists adore single motherhood when conservatives attack polyamory.
- Leftists do not practice single motherhood (poor Democrats aren't leftists; they're just a bought constituency).
- Leftists abhor single motherhood when conservatives attack homogamy.
You can find similar incompatibilities on any issue---guns, welfare, the working class, you name it. Conservatives tend to attack liberals along the vector of "hypocrisy." (Libertarians don't care; whatever ends up in more sexual license and less obligation on the part of parents is fine by them.) But this doesn't actually work, because it is based on the assumption that the leftist is arguing, and will attempt to bring his thoughts and beliefs at least into line with themselves if not with actual facts. However, this isn't what the liberal is doing. He's simply trying to promote the "oppressed class" du jour and simultaneously trying to shred the established civilization, and will grab whatever argument is most handy at the time to accomplish that. If we switch topics, he will switch arguments as fluidly and easily as a Pentecostal changes doctrines.
"Hold them to their own standards."
I suspect that the best way to debate a leftist is to understand their thinking and hold them to their own standards.
When I debated them in the past I often tried analogies, and pointing out how hypocritical they are. This didn't work becasue analogies distract their small minds, and they don't care about being hypocrites.
I shall try to read more stuff from progressives and less from conservatives and libertarians. Once I've done this I may try to debate them again.
"I shall try to read more stuff from progressives and less from conservatives and libertarians. Once I've done this I may try to debate them again."
ReplyDeleteYou have missed the point entirely.
DO NOT, I repeat, DO NOT attempt to "hold them to their own standards". That's a morass you will NOT have the patience for.
Show where they are lacking in THESE standards- genuine compassion for the poor,identity as a member of the "working class" or "99%" a.k.a. their "street creds",racial acceptance, support for women's hypergamous and self-infantilizing agenda also known as "women's rights","progress" i.e. how their glorious future has not and most likely will not come to pass,and gay acceptance.
These are the things most near and dear to a leftist's heart.They are the leftist's "good guy badges", or "merit badges" if you prefer.
A leftist is a person who wants to be a boy scout without all the "patriotism nonsense".
They want to dress up in the snazzy uniforms,do some goosestepping,flash their badges, and pretend they're better than everyone else.
Cut them down by targeting them along these lines.
It turns them into a blubbering pile of goo when you point out their "compassion" is feigned, they in reality have low opinions of women,they hold racist attitudes,they are pussies,that they are ill-educated dumb spoiled rich kids with no aptitude for history.
Strip them of their "uniform" and their "badges",and they cower before you in fear and shame.
Getting a serious debate would actually be a problem.
DeleteUndoubtedly, their political beliefs are only consistent and comparable by the belief that they think they're better than the rest of us.
Pointing out their flaws and laughing as they call me names is still funny though.
"They reject the social foundations of debate---reason and principle. Demand they prove they're not racists, that they treat women as equals, etc. Holding them to their own standards means interrupting every argument with an accusation and a demand for justification."
ReplyDeleteAnd now I'm enlightened.