Huffington Post Comments, 9/17/2012, Part II

Me: (In response to an article saying that the republicans' positions are only good for white males.)

I fail to see why the republican goals of freedom, lower taxes, and fewer handouts are only good ideas for white males.

stacib

Because they are all happening on the backs of other people. I want freedom too - freedom to choose what is best for my healthcare and not a male elected official who will never experience what I go through as a female. If taxes were much lower right now, we surely wouldn't be able to pay for the most basic services. 18 tax cuts for the middle class - how much more would you like to see cut? I am totally with you on fewer handouts - no more oil subsidies or farm subsidies and I would really like to stop paying for the benefits of Congressmen and Senators that somehow don't think I'm entitled to the same benefits. 

Me:

"I want freedom too - freedom to choose what is best for my healthcare and not a male elected official who will never experience what I go through as a female."

How is the Affordable Care Act (Obamacare), with its 2000 pages of new rules and regulations, not, exactly, interference with our healthcare? That is one of the reasons that much of the country opposes it.

Or is your qualm with the republicans not wanting to pay for the birth control of college women?

Or is your problem that the republicans are opposed to killing unborn people?

We cannot afford to pay for the services that we are getting now. We are adding about $1.3 trillion to the federal debt this year, and last year... The federal debt is over $16 trillion already. If you are at all worried about "pay for the most basic services" then we need to cut federal spending.

2011 "budget" numbers: http://cbo.gov/publication/42636

I also agree with ending subsidies; I'd like to see zero subsidies come from the government.

What do you mean by "18 tax cuts for the middle class"? (I'm on the right and have a hard time finding where those of you on the left find you information.)

If we insist on having an income tax, then I'd like to have a flat tax with zero exceptions or loopholes, excepting only those who make less than the poverty line.

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Me: (In response to an article saying that the republicans' positions are only good for white males.)

I fail to see why the republican goals of freedom, lower taxes, and fewer handouts are only good ideas for white males.

 lawdog0251

Because ... THEY DON'T WALK THE TALK!

Freedom? Look up the Patriot Act.
Lower taxes? Look up Bush's three rounds of tax cuts, 80% of which went to the top 19%.
Fewer handouts? Like oil depletion allowances, crop subsidies and tax loopholes for corporate America - in other words, handouts for the rich will be maintained while the lot of the poor and middle class will continue to decline.

No, I fear you have it wrong. These people are in it for themselves and themselves, alone. What fiscally responsible Republican would cut taxes three times when he is running deficits and two wars "off the books?" Only a greedy, patrician Republican - one who does not represent the American people or American ideals. AND IT HAS CONTINUED UNABATED!

Finally, let us not talk about "Republican goals" when one of their standard planks is "personal responsibility" for which none have stepped forward to accept with respect to all the damage caused by "Hurricane Bush/Cheyney."

Me:

Neither...DO THE DEMOCRATS!

At least the republicans are willing to talk about personal responsibility.

The democrats want to tax everyone more and then regulate and regulate some more.

(Although, I agree that the Patriot Act and subsides are bad, the democrats were complicit in them.)

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Me: (In response to an article saying that the republicans' positions are only good for white males.)

I fail to see why the republican goals of freedom, lower taxes, and fewer handouts are only good ideas for white males.

Ashanti

Actually these are every American's goals ...

The distinction lies in the nuances of these goals, nuances that generally translate into "people," that Republicans seem incapable of understanding ... or caring about! 

Me:

Those of us on the right are often accused of not caring about people. But we merely have a different idea for what raises the most people out of poverty and what helps them the most.

Throughout the history of the world the countries that are wealthier because they are more free. When there is a lot of government control people's lives are miserable and millions are killed (see: USSR, Communist China, Cuba, North Korea, Cambodia, etc.)

When countries move towards more freedom and less government it is amazing to see all of the good things happening to the people.

For example, have a look at an example I just happened across:

http://spootville.blogspot.com/2012/09/less-government-more-prosperity.html

excerpt:

Notice how after only some free market ideas were added to the economy: "More than 30,000 private businesses had been created, economy was growing at an annual rate of more than 7%, and poverty was nearly halved."

Before free market ideas were introduced in Vietnam: "The economy remained dominated by small-scale production, low labor productivity, unemployment, material and technological shortfalls, and insufficient food and consumer goods."

What's best is more freedom and less government. We've been going the other way. And look how well we're doing.

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Me: (In response to an article saying that the republicans' positions are only good for white males.)

I fail to see why the republican goals of freedom, lower taxes, and fewer handouts are only good ideas for white males.

 JustMeSayin

Well, sucker, that is because your list does not represent the actual "ideas" of these Republicans. They love those of you (another one born every minute) who hear what they want to hear.

Those "ideas" are the "come on" for the Republican grift or long con. If elected, their only goal is to cut taxes for their most wealthy (overwhelmingly white) contributors and to gut government regulations that are often established to protect our air, water, freedoms, etc.

Believe what you want, but if you are not a wealthy, white male, these Republican grifters are just not on your side.

Perhaps you should get in touch with this Nigerian prince who is looking for help. He has millions of dollars that he would like to give you, if only he could cut through some government red tape. 

Me:

Its always good to start with name calling.

The republicans do indeed fall short of their stated goals. And so do the democrats.

How has Obama been doing on his campaign promises? http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/rulings/promise-broken/?page=1

The stated goals of the republicans are at least good. The goals of the democrats is to take from the rich and regulate everyone.

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Me: (In response to an article saying that the republicans' positions are only good for white males.)

I fail to see why the republican goals of freedom, lower taxes, and fewer handouts are only good ideas for white males.

 blueline2

You don't get it-those are all worthy goals-the problem is the GOP is owned by two groups:
1. Large corporations, and
2. Fundamentalist, evangelical Christian groups.
The first group tries to manipulate the 90% of us who aren't 'in their club' into working diligently for their success and to sacrifice our own (and our descendants') well being.

The second group tries to ensure that those of us who aren't in 'their club' (southern protestant churches) are forced to live within their rules--they don't want to respect the rest of us, but they expect the rest of us to respect them.

Little by little these two groups together 'ate up' American society, but now there (finally) is a backlash developing. The Republicans' problem is that they are becoming the vocal but mathematically insignificant minority. They still may win some elections. It taks some time, but eventually the numbers will add up and the Republican party will shrivel up and die. It's unfortunate because once upon a time, Republicans were a strong force for quiet determination (Eisenhower, Dole, Kemp, Dirksen, etc.) Now, they are just panderers to the rich and religious extremists who are their biggest donors. Wonder what will replace them in the future--I sure as hell don't know.

Me:

And the democrats are owned by unions, especially the teachers unions.

FYI, I'll be voting for Gary Johnson, the Libertarian candidate. Neither party will do good things.

But my first comment was to defend the republicans because this article's author say that the R position is only good for white males, whereas their positions (if followed) are not different for any race or gender.

I hope that the tea party or the libertarian party is the next party of the right. Let's start with a balanced budget and move forward with a limited government rather than the near unlimited one that we have now.

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Me: (In response to an article saying that the republicans' positions are only good for white males.)

I fail to see why the republican goals of freedom, lower taxes, and fewer handouts are only good ideas for white males.

 Freepernix

Freedom from what exactly? I hear this a lot, but I don't understand its meaning from a Republican point of view considering voting rights are being taken away, a woman's right to choose is being picked apart, gays can't marry who they want. So freedom means.... What exactly? 

Me:

Freedom, from the right, means: the freedom to buy large sodas, the freedom to drive cars without CAFE requirements, the freedom to pay employees what they both agree to with no government influence, the freedom to own guns, the freedom to smoke, the freedom to start a business without government interference, the freedom to own a showerhead that does not have a government mandated limit on water flow, etc.

Name an aspect of your life and we can find several rules and regulations affecting that aspect. (See: U.S. Code)

As for "the right to choose" and the rights of gays etc. The "right to choose" is the right to kill an unborn person. Many find this to be morally objectionable, especially if their tax dollars go towards paying for it. Gay marriage is an issue that is not logically consistent with the republican goal of more freedom. However, there are historical religious objections and following that religion has helped us to become the wealthiest country in the history of the world. Many are nervous about leaving the traditions that helped us get to where we are.

The republicans may be anti-freedom about gay marriage, but the democrats are anti-freedom with nearly every other issue.

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Me: (In response to an article saying that the republicans' positions are only good for white males.)

I fail to see why the republican goals of freedom, lower taxes, and fewer handouts are only good ideas for white males.

Easy123 

 Please read who added the most debt to the US over the last 30 years. Without the "handouts" we all dislike, this recession would have made the great depression look like a walk in the park. Poor people and too much regulation is not what crippled our economy. There is no actual evidence that they actually believe in freedom, lower taxes, and fewer handouts. They say it, but tell me what action matches those alleged goals.

Me:

Both parties have added to the debt for more than the last 30 years. By "who added to the debt" do you mean which presidents or which congresses?

Our "handouts," subsidies, bailouts are very similar to what the government did during the great depression. And we have the same results, which are worse than they would have been had the government not interfered.

For evidence of my point I'll direct you to Franklin Delano Roosevelt's Secretary of the Treasury. And his quote on the subject of the government spending money in order to "help" the economy:

"We have tried spending money. We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work. And I have just one interest, and if I am wrong … somebody else can have my job. I want to see this country prosperous. I want to see people get a job. I want to see people get enough to eat. We have never made good on our promises. … I say after eight years of this Administration we have just as much unemployment as when we started. … And an enormous debt to boot."

-Henry Morganthau, Jr.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Morgenthau,_Jr.

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Me: (In response to an article saying that the republicans' positions are only good for white males.)

I fail to see why the republican goals of freedom, lower taxes, and fewer handouts are only good ideas for white males.

 gts31bumbee

Because trickle down is a joke ! Next question. 

I guess I lost this one and there is no reason to respond. :)

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Me: (In response to an article saying that the republicans' positions are only good for white males.)

I fail to see why the republican goals of freedom, lower taxes, and fewer handouts are only good ideas for white males.

RRuin

"I fail to see why the republican goals of freedom, lower taxes, and fewer handouts are only good ideas for white males. "

The "freedom" the GOP preaches is reserved for white, straight Christian males.
You're swallowing the GOP talking points. You know the ones where they say they want less government but that women must be under government scrutiny to monitor their pregnancies, their birth control, their reproductive health choices.
Or is it the smaller government the GOP wants that will deny marriage rights to gay couples.
Or the smaller government that the GOP has in mind to keep people from voting.
Stop regurgitating the GOP talking points and get some information. Read! 

Me:

How is less government spending and a balanced budget freedom only for "white, straight Christian males"?

I will concede that the republicans are anti freedom on the issue of gay marriage.

However, republicans find killing the unborn to be wrong. As for contraception, etc. the republicans merely do not public funding of it. Many don't like the fact that they are forced to pay for things that are morally wrong. Don't you dislike paying taxes towards things that you find morally wrong?

Many, many, many of you who I exchange comments with accuse me of using "talking points". (While using arguments that are exactly the same, from commenter to commenter.) Where is it that you think that I get my talking points from? Could I not have gotten my thoughts from all sorts of places, and not just wherever it is you think that all of us on the right get our "talking points"?

I read more than almost anyone I have ever known on all sorts of subjects. What is it specifically that you would like me to read that would convince me that your positions are the correct ones?

I'll promise to read any book or website that you point me to.

I'll give you a book that makes my side's case in a fun and interesting way: Bourbon for Breakfast by Jeffery A. Tucker.

Read it for free here: http://mises.org/document/5509/Bourbon-for-Breakfast

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Me: (In response to an article saying that the republicans' positions are only good for white males.)

I fail to see why the republican goals of freedom, lower taxes, and fewer handouts are only good ideas for white males.

 14Kestrel

Freedom?! You are kidding, right? 

Me:

Yeah, I am.

I actually want the government to decide when, where, and how I get my healthcare. I also want the government to decide which car I should drive, how fast I can go, and what gas I can put in it.

But what I really want is for the government to decide how large of a soda that I can buy.

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Stay tuned for part 3 tomorrow.